With every breakthrough, there’s a story behind it, and this couldn’t be any truer for Los Angeles-based ensemble, Run River North (RRN).
RRN started small playing for a few hometown shows in LA and encountered the typical difficulties any band experiences trying to make a living with music. In these situations, you get creative to build content that brings exposure. The music video “Fight to Keep” they recorded in their Hondas went viral, and Honda surprised them with a performance on Jimmy Kimmel Live!
Thanks to the big break, RRN signed with Nettwerk Music Group in 2013 and released their self-titled debut album this past February working alongside producer Phil Ek (Band of Horses, Fleet Foxes, Built to Spill, The Shins). Since then, they’ve been touring, performing at LA’s famed Troubadour, New York City’s Rockwood Music Hall, and at SXSW. They joined the Goo Goo Dolls for their acoustic spring tour while also playing their own headline shows in Boston, New York, DC, Atlanta, and Philadelphia.
They are phenomenal musicians, but we wanted to learn more about the people behind the music and the impact they want to make through their work. That’s what Urbane + Gallant is about, and we want to highlight men who are on mission. We got the opportunity to sit down with John Chong, RRN’s drummer, after they got back from their tour. He spoke personally and was not speaking on behalf of the rest of the band.
Here’s the interview:
Music
What do you love most about being a drummer?
I love the primal aspect of drumming. I like providing the opportunity for people to move and dance with the rhythm of a song.
How often do you practice?
Whenever I have free time, since I love to practice outside of work with the band. I do this because I believe you have to hone your craft before you bring it to the group, and I want to be able to play all the different drumming styles out there. I personally like groove type styles, but practicing outside of the band gives me an avenue to create new sounds and rhythms without any other instruments. I get to be completely by myself, and I’ll do this almost everyday, if I can. I definitely believe I have a lot more to learn, and I don’t think learning will ever stop.
This is important because music with RRN will always be evolving. We just released our first album in February, but our second one might be completely different. That’s why I’m not going to settle with my sounds.
Photo credit: Calvin Lim Photography (calvinlimphotography.com)
Who are some drummers you look up to for inspiration?
Growing up I listened to a lot of metal and jazz. Elvin Jones, Art Blakey, and Max Roach are some of the jazz drummers who have inspired me. I like how Max was a very musical drummer. He wasn’t bombastic or flashy, while he can be, but I really appreciated the fact that he was musical. For more contemporary drummers: Darren King of Mutemath and Brandon Corn from OC-based band, Kiev.
I also get inspiration from tones—bass tones, guitar tones—and from open space. Because I get inspiration from tones, I want to make my drums sound like a guitar or a piano, even if it’s super subtle.
Explain your kit setup:
My setup: hi-hats, ride, snare, rack tom, kick, and floor tom. It’s the minimalism aspect. I like the concept of having the least amount of things and finding as many sounds as I can make from it. Having this setup really exposed the ride cymbal for me to get the most sounds out of it. Now imagine what kind of sounds I can get out of the drums.
Run River North had a unique journey to get signed with Nettwerk Music Group. What was the biggest challenge you personally faced before RRN got signed?
My biggest challenge was to see, before we got signed, that not everyone was fully invested into the band yet. It’s understandable because we all had jobs and still some uncertainty in our band’s future. It wasn’t until after we got signed and started recording when everyone wanted to be fully invested.
Photo credit: Calvin Lim Photography (calvinlimphotography.com)
When people pursue their dreams and realize it’s not panning out the way they imagined, they come to that fork in the road: do I keep going to see how this ends or do I quit? What motivated you to keep drumming?
For me growing up, I wanted to be different from most people. I wanted to do the opposite of what most people did. If they dressed a certain way, I’d dress the opposite. It’s probably because I was an attention whore, but that mantra stuck in my life, and I wanted to make my career in music and do whatever it takes to get that going. So for a long time, when I was in a band in college, we pushed hard. I worked more with the band than school. I wanted to get rid of school just for my mom, and I didn’t care about my diploma or anything. The music thing was it all.
When that band broke up, which I gave my entire life to, I was devastated. I told myself I didn’t want to be in that position ever again, so I didn’t put too much value in my desire to be a musician after that. Luckily, I kept getting opportunities to play for other musicians and RRN came around, so I kept doing what I really knew how to do.
A lot of people ask me that question, how do you keep going? How do you accomplish your dreams? Maybe it’s because I had supportive parents who didn’t pressure me too much or because I had supportive friends in that field so I felt it was normal to keep drumming, but I think it’s all about the foundation. If you know and have confidence in yourself you can do something, you keep going. You don’t even have to be the greatest. I know I won’t be the greatest drummer ever, but if anything happens, I know I’ll still be able to find work drumming and that confidence keeps me going. It’s the best thing I know how to do, and a lot of people tell me, “Just do what you do best. Follow your dreams and do what you do best.”
I contribute to society by playing drums. It’s sort of a selfish thing, trying to prove to the world I can have fun with my job instead of stressing out, but I want to show the world I can play drums and help society feel better about itself through music. Entertainment is such an interesting thing, though. I think it’s very selfish, but at the same time, you’re giving a gift through a different medium—other than money or gifts. Music is powerful.
As a drummer, equipment will break on you while playing. What is the funniest moment you had when a part of your kit broke while playing?
I have a couple of moments. There was another band I was in, and it was a quiet section. The song was about to come down hard, and right on the first hit, the beater rips through the bass drum. It was one of those battles of the bands, and I messed up the house kit for the other bands. It was the most anti-climactic drop ever, and that’s probably why we lost.
The second moment is quite common: when a cymbal breaks and crashes to the ground.
As you grow with Run River North and gain a platform, what kind of impact do you hope to make?
That’s a great question. We all have different things we stand behind. For myself, I love backpacking and nature, so I’m kind of the environmentalist of the group. Water bottles! I believe in bottles—Nalgenes and reusable bottles—instead of wasting landfills on half-drunk water bottles tossed at a show, wedding, or event. So recently, the rest of the band is going to try to do the whole reusable bottle thing because of support we got from Klean Kanteen.
Regarding influence: growing up, I knew I had some influence because of situations I’ve been in. It’s a powerful thing, and I hope to be able to use it—individually and as a band—to influence others for good. For me, water is important, especially with the whole drought coming up this summer. I’m nervous about it. Even with climate change and the glaciers melting, it’s something I’m very worried about.
I definitely think we will influence, and I already see it. I believe fashion can be influential. People say fashion is selfish and superficial, but others view fashion as a creative output or stress relief. For example, the girls in the band can really influence other girls in fashion and help them feel beautiful. When people feel beautiful, they’ll live with a positive outlook. It may be selfish and superficial, but if you feel better without hurting anyone else, then why not? If clothes can make another girl feel special and that doesn’t hurt anyone else, then why not?
I know I’ve influenced drummers, and it’s always humbling to hear that. It’s humbling knowing I’ve influenced drummers to think a little outside the box, inspiring them to get different cymbals and drums.
Photo credit: Calvin Lim Photography (calvinlimphotography.com)
Masculinity
How does the music industry define being a man? Does this pressure you at all?
You know, with the music industry, I feel like it doesn’t. I personally don’t sense any pressure telling men to “be a man” because I see bands with guys with long hair, the tightest pants, the tightest clothing, and very skinny bodies. We have people like Bruno Mars, who’s very Michael Buble or Frank Sinatra, where they’re swooning girls. They don’t look manly in the traditional sense, but they’re manly because they’re expressing some sort of love. So I don’t feel there’s a whole lot of pressure to be a certain definition of a man because the music industry is so liberal where homosexuality and transgenderism is out in the open and acceptable.
I don’t see any “bro” bands. I don’t see a lot of “bros” in the music industry. Even in EDM, there’s Steve Aoki and Tiesto, but he’s a little buff. He’s probably the most traditional manly guy I know of. I don’t see too many musicians with super masculine physical traits, so I don’t feel any pressure in that aspect
Going beyond the physical traits, one of the typical pressures men feel in society is to be the guy who sleeps with the most girls or have authority and power. Do you see this same dynamic in the music industry?
I definitely see that in society, but I think it’s so different in the music industry. Outside of the business aspect (if it’s just music and musicians), I don’t think you see a lot of those unless you’re really one of the top dogs—someone like Chris Martin from Coldplay, but he seems like the nicest guy.
On the business side, though, yeah I see it. On the record label side, publishing and agency side, there will always be the head honchos, and, you’re right, that power gives them confidence. They do seem typically more masculine, especially if they’re male. But again, with musicians, unless you’re super, super top dog you rarely see that.
For example, we went on tour with the Goo Goo Dolls. John Rzeznick and Robby Takac, the two remaining members of the band, are kind of big shots, but at the same time they’re super nice. They’re the bosses of the entire Goo Goo Dolls band and production, but they’re still super nice, and you don’t feel intimidated by them. Their power doesn’t make you feel less of a human. Now there are certain people who abuse that power and make others feel like crap or jealous, but there are people with power who make others feel encouraged and influence them in a positive way. Great leaders should be able to do that: influence in a positive way. Usually, those types of people are humble. They have a lot of humility, and they’re very gracious for where they are and don’t take it for granted.
Photo credit: Calvin Lim Photography (calvinlimphotography.com)
How do you define being a man? What kind of a man do you want to become?
You brought up the whole sleeping with girls mentality, and the whole “Let’s bang chicks and get hammered!” mentality. I feel like that is such a college frat boy type of mentality that still exists in a lot of places. My friend used to work for a sports team, and he would tell me all they would talk about is how many girls they’ve slept with that weekend.
So I think masculinity is influence. With influence, you have tremendous amounts of power to do harm or good, and I think being responsible is a part of masculinity. If you’re responsible with great power—like they said in Spider Man, “With great power comes great responsibility”—hopefully you use it for the right things.
We can talk about family and how, traditionally, you feel like the man has to be the breadwinner for the home. There are so many societies telling you to be beefy or to not cry. But I feel like that’s not masculine. I think being true to yourself is masculine. For example, sometimes I’m so hurt that I cry. That sounds pansy, but if you’re able to express yourself and communicate properly to a loved one, I think that’s super important. Just because I have a skinny frame and have long hair, that doesn’t make me less masculine.
By the way, I know how to make fire. Does that make me masculine? I can survive in the woods, so I guess that makes me manly. (laughs)
That brings me to that whole natural aspect, trying to be as natural as can be. Men are generally more masculine than females in certain aspects, but without exaggerating those things, just be natural to what your mind and your instincts are telling you. We all have those natural instincts to protect women. More than society, I think that’s a paternal instinct to its mate, which dates way back to take care of your own.
It’s interesting you bring that up because our previous social media post was about the discussion around Elliot Rodgers, #YesAllWomen, and violence against women. The “it’s ok, men just do that” attitude that men have is burdening. Where are the men who disagree and treat women with honor and respect?
Sometimes I don’t, to be honest. I’m a boy and not a man, but I’m constantly reminded to respect and not objectify women. I think all guys can relate to that. All men can relate to the fact that sometimes we become boys, and I think you have to constantly remind yourself and work at it. For me, it’s been a long process, but I’m getting better at it.
Photo credit: Calvin Lim Photography (calvinlimphotography.com)
Our previous blog post talks about how men learn to live out the essence of masculinity when they shoulder a personal mission. What’s the mission you want to accomplish in your life? Knowing this, how has this helped you mature as a man?
When you have more influence, and you say statements like, “Oh, let’s use reusable bottles!” you find yourself now accountable to that. Because I have more influence and feel like I have more eyes on me, I feel like I can’t ever pick up a Kirkland, Crystal Geyser, or Sparkletts water bottle because I preach “No bottled water”. If I have no water and no water fountains around me to fill up my reusable bottle, and if I crack open bottled water, I feel like I’m lying to myself. I have a sense of responsibility now because of my mission to see more people drink from reusable bottles. A life mission grounds you, so you don’t mess around and do stupid things. Responsibility gets a lot bigger and requires more discipline at that point.
Integrity is the big thing. Men have integrity. Real men have integrity. That responsibility grows as you gain more influence. Like Uncle Ben said in Spider Man, “With great power comes great responsibility.” It’s cheesy, but I really believe it. You have a greater responsibility to keep yourself in check and to really stand on the foundations you have made for yourself and do your best to get that done.
Media tend to portray masculinity as Rambo or as superheroes that find success alone. We know this isn’t true. How much of a role did community have in helping you get to where you are today?
HUGE. Anyone with success has had huge support along the way. Look at Blake Griffin: he had support from his brother, dad, mom, friends, and fans. He’s probably the best power forward to play the game, after Tim Duncan, in the league. I truly believe that he’s the best power forward in the league, and he’s had support. Kobe Bryant has had support. Michael Jordan may have done it all himself, and he may say, “The animosity towards me has driven me to greatness”, but I believe he got support from Scottie Pippen and his coaches. Anyone who wants to be great and is going to be great NEEDS support. We can’t do it alone. We really can’t.
Photo credit: Calvin Lim Photography (calvinlimphotography.com)
If you could give a word of encouragement to the men, what would you say?
Live with integrity. Be bold. Be confident in what you stand for. Explore things to discover yourself and live on those foundations with integrity so you find the confidence to pursue life.
Fashion
What do you like to wear?
These days, I like wearing gray scale. I’m wearing these 3sixteen, special edition jeans (ST220X) their double black jeans. I’m wearing these jeans nonstop everyday. Shoes: black shoes, Vans or Clarks low tops. I wear a lot of black and white graphic T-Shirts because I feel like tattoos are a good way to express yourself right now. Since I don’t have tattoos just yet, I want to express myself with graphic T-Shirts. Most are of bands I like listening to. They’re a good conversation starter. I used to be simplistic with t-shirts and button ups, but I like to change things up a bit. I feel like I wanted to be more comfortable. I rarely wear color except for my underwear: American Apparel Briefs – RED. (laughs)
If I do dress up nice, I can clean myself up. As long as your pants are nicely fitted, your whole outfit will look that much better. People have good fitting shirts, but if their pants are too baggy, it throws it off. It doesn’t have to be super tight, just flattering. The fit is overall what you need. If any guy wants to look good, just get good fitting clothes.
Two button or three button suits?
Two buttons because it’s simpler. But three is more pleasing to the eye, but I like two. It’s more modern.
Single breasted or double breasted?
Single breasted. It’s cleaner, and there are less buttons to worry about. It also looks more symmetric.
Photo credit: Calvin Lim Photography (calvinlimphotography.com)
Favorite pocket square fold?
Most of the time I wear suits, I use the classic fold. It looks sophisticated, and I try not to be flashy. The pocket squares I have are not patterned, just colored. I usually wear the white square.
What kind of fabric do you like for your pocket squares?
I have silk, but I don’t have cotton.
Photo credit: Calvin Lim Photography (calvinlimphotography.com)
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We hope you enjoyed our interview with John Chong of Run River North for the “Urbane + Gallant In Action” blog series. Subscribe to our blog so you don’t miss out on our next interview with Kindred Image, producers of the The Dropbox movie!
Remember to check out Run River North’s new album and support their great work!
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